RALPH on fri 4 oct 96

Nancy perhaps you missed my last message on kiln wash. First of all
rather use calcined alumina (aluminium oxide) than aluminium hydrate
and use 50% of the total. Your EPK is Kaolin ( china clay) and your Flint is
a form of Silica. Use 25% of each of these two to make up the 100%.
Kind regards Ralph from Port Elizabeth S.A.

Ron Roy on fri 4 oct 96

Just a quick comment re silica in kiln wash. I don't use it anymore - It
combines with the fluxes in clays - especially porcelain. I use ball clay
and alumina - the less clay the better but having at least 10% makes it
easier to brush - which I don't do anymore except for touch ups. Spraying
is a bit wasteful but gives a great pebble finish.

Ron Roy
Toronto, Canada
Evenings, call 416 439 2621
Fax, 416 438 7849

Bob Hanlin on thu 21 nov 96

I just read a post by Marshall Talbott about Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash from
Axner. The post implies that you can turn shelves coated with this wash
over and the wash won't flake off onto pots below. Is that so?

You Axner fans are about to get me to return to Howard again. Used to do
business with him but quit. Your posts and his are making we want to return.

BobHanlin
bhanlin@ionet.net
Bob Hanlin
3504 N. Tulsa
Oklahoma City, OK 73112

e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net

Talbott on fri 22 nov 96

I personally do NOT flip my shelves and I know that is the "correct" thing
to do-- I probably in all reality could now flip my shelves with no
problems--but I don't --I supposed I had rather lose a shelf or two every
year or so know than worry about the unthinkable happening --"kiln wash
imbedded in the glaze" of a otherwise beautiful copper red vase..or
something to that effect....and in the past I did have my fair share of
problems with flaking kiln wash but not any more.......Marshall


>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I just read a post by Marshall Talbott about Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash from
>Axner. The post implies that you can turn shelves coated with this wash
>over and the wash won't flake off onto pots below. Is that so?
>
>You Axner fans are about to get me to return to Howard again. Used to do
>business with him but quit. Your posts and his are making we want to return.
>
>BobHanlin
>bhanlin@ionet.net
>Bob Hanlin
>3504 N. Tulsa
>Oklahoma City, OK 73112
>
>e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net

Marshall Talbott
Pottery By Celia
Route 114
P.O. Box 4116
Naples, Maine 04055-4116
(207)693-6100 voice and fax
clupus@ime.net

Kevin P. O'Hara on sat 23 nov 96

Bob
I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
it reliable?

Kevin P. O'Hara
ohara@indy.cp.lucent.com
Indianapolis
----------
From: CLAYART
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Subject: Kiln Wash
Date: Thursday, November 21, 1996 5:20PM

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I just read a post by Marshall Talbott about Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash from
Axner. The post implies that you can turn shelves coated with this wash
over and the wash won't flake off onto pots below. Is that so?

You Axner fans are about to get me to return to Howard again. Used to do
business with him but quit. Your posts and his are making we want to
return.

BobHanlin
bhanlin@ionet.net
Bob Hanlin
3504 N. Tulsa
Oklahoma City, OK 73112

e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net

Harvey Sadow on sun 24 nov 96

Kevin P. O'Hara wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Bob
> I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
> all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
> both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
> it reliable?
>
> Kevin P. O'Hara
> ohara@indy.cp.lucent.com
> Indianapolis
> ----------


Yes, this works fine. It works better in a private studio situation
than a classroom. Here's why. Loading shelves full of sand can cause
sand to end up inside the pots on the shelves below. It is less likely
to happen if the pots on the shelf below were made by the person loading
the shelves! The sand does protect the shelves but can end up bonding
to runny glazes on the bottom edge of the objects. Sifting raw silica
flour onto the shelves accomplishes the same protective results, is just
as recyclable and tends not to roll off into the post below. Try it out
and see what you think.
Cheers, Harvey Sadow

Larry Phillips on sun 24 nov 96

In article <3295AD2D@cpmail>,
"Kevin P. O'Hara" writes:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Bob
> I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
> all.

I don't blame him. I am no expert, but I already hate kiln wash, and
a fellow at a local outlet told me about an alternative. He uses
alumina, in water, with a little CMC. It goes on easily with a brush,
stays in place well, and comes off completyely after the firing.

> He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.

I am guessing that it would work, but am not sure. I am sure about the
alumina, thought.

> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
> both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
> it reliable?

I turn my shelves for alternate firings. Works fine.

--
Socrates said that no man is truly free.
Socrates was never a pilot.

Talbott on mon 25 nov 96

I would be CAREFUL about sprinkling silica sand, etc around on the
shelves during a glaze firing especially if you have a gas kiln which
produces a turbulent atmosphere because to state the obvious-- if that
stuff gets into your glazes then YIPES**** You will be somewhat unhappy--
Marshall

atmospherefffff
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>In article <3295AD2D@cpmail>,
> "Kevin P. O'Hara" writes:
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Bob
>> I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
>> all.
>
>I don't blame him. I am no expert, but I already hate kiln wash, and
>a fellow at a local outlet told me about an alternative. He uses
>alumina, in water, with a little CMC. It goes on easily with a brush,
>stays in place well, and comes off completyely after the firing.
>
>> He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
>
>I am guessing that it would work, but am not sure. I am sure about the
>alumina, thought.
>
>> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
>> both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
>> it reliable?
>
>I turn my shelves for alternate firings. Works fine.
>
>--
>Socrates said that no man is truly free.
>Socrates was never a pilot.

Marshall Talbott
Pottery By Celia
Route 114
P.O. Box 4116
Naples, Maine 04055-4116
(207)693-6100 voice and fax
clupus@ime.net

Gerry Barbe on mon 25 nov 96

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Kevin P. O'Hara wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Bob
> I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
> all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
> both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
> it reliable?

I used alumina instead of kiln wash for a while. Alumina must be similar
to silica. Because I also vent the kiln with a Bailey's venting sysem the
air inside the kiln must swirl around and took some alumina with it thus
contaminating all the glaze with "sand". My friend who also uses alumina
did not have this problem because she used one of those flying saucer type
vents. You know, the kind that makes it look like your kiln is wearing a
straw hat. I quit using the alumina but it did stop the pots from
sticking to the shelf. Robert Tetu's kiln wash is the best wash I've ever
used.

Marilyn in Ailsa Craig

______________________________________________________________________________

Peggy Heer on mon 25 nov 96

Hi All...I have never kiln washed my shelves in the gas kiln....use alumina
hydrate and sometimes a fine silica sand... but like the alumina better.
Put on the shelf before you put the shelf in the kiln...hold it level so
the AH does not spill on or into the bottom layers of pots. My shelves have
been in constant use for over 20 yrs with no warping. I don't turn them
regularly but am sure they are turned now and then. Any spills/drips are
chipped out, sometimes with a bit of the shelf coming away too, but if/any
holes in the shelf are visiable they are filled with the AH or sand and the
shelf is level again. I dump the AH off when unloading and reuse it next
fire. I have only had one accident with drips/run offs onto shelves. A
whole load of ash glazed porcelin where1/3 of the glazed load ran and glued
to the shelves. I chipped the glaze away and fill the holes with AH and
everything works fine. Sometimes I turn these shelves so that the glazed
holes are on the bottom and have never had any drips from them onto pots
below. (this is done when I fire cone 10.) I have found the AH or silica
sand VERY reliable and a lot easier to deal with than kiln washed shelves.
Works for me. As Always in Clay Peggy



>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Bob
>I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
>all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
>both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
>it reliable?
>
>Kevin P. O'Hara
>ohara@indy.cp.lucent.com
>Indianapolis
> ----------

Peggy Heer / Heer Pottery E-Mail p4337@connect.ab.ca
Edmonton AB, Canada
http://www.ffa.ucalgary.ca/artists/pheer/

David Hewitt on mon 25 nov 96

In message , "Kevin P. O'Hara" writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Bob
>I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
>all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
>both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
>it reliable?
>
I have been using silica sand for many many years now. I find it very
reliable and much easier and cleaner than bat wash.
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery Caerleon, Tel:- 01633 420647
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport, South Wales, UK.
URL http://digitalfire.com/magic/hewitt.htm

Bob Hanlin on mon 25 nov 96

Kevin
I use silica powder, the some stuff that I use in the glazes, if I want to
flip a shelf I can just dust off the silica with a stiff bristle brush and
flip it. However, if a glaze runs (tests are often unpredictable) then
sometimes it's a mess and if they are quite fluid it's really a mess. So if
you've got everything under control, (and who does) it's OK, if not it can
create some hazards.



>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
>both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
>it reliable?

>Kevin P. O'Hara
>ohara@indy.cp.lucent.com
>Indianapolis
> ----------
>
>
Bob Hanlin
3504 N. Tulsa
Oklahoma City, OK 73112

e-mail bhanlin@ionet.net

Bob Kavanagh on mon 25 nov 96

I tend to use only alumina hydrate sprinkled onto shelves. It is
problematic only when I make mistakes and overfire glazes and they run
badly. It has suited me very well for many years. When I go into a
heavily experimental stage I set aside my worst shelves for tests and still
use only alumina sprinkled onto the shelf.

Stern HQ on tue 26 nov 96

Hi, I just came in on this conversation. For those of us who don't know,
could someone please give the recipe for Tetsu's kiln wash? Thanks in
advance. Jeni Stern

On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Gerry Barbe wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Kevin P. O'Hara wrote:
>
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > Bob
> > I heard a friend from England say that he does not like to use kiln wash at
> > all. He sprinkles silica sand on the shelves and sets the pots on the sand.
> > He then recycles the sand for the following firing. He is then able use
> > both sides of the shelf to prohibit warping. Has anyone else done this? Is
> > it reliable?
>
> I used alumina instead of kiln wash for a while. Alumina must be similar
> to silica. Because I also vent the kiln with a Bailey's venting sysem the
> air inside the kiln must swirl around and took some alumina with it thus
> contaminating all the glaze with "sand". My friend who also uses alumina
> did not have this problem because she used one of those flying saucer type
> vents. You know, the kind that makes it look like your kiln is wearing a
> straw hat. I quit using the alumina but it did stop the pots from
> sticking to the shelf. Robert Tetu's kiln wash is the best wash I've ever
> used.
>
> Marilyn in Ailsa Craig
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>

Gerry Barbe on wed 27 nov 96

Robert Tetu's Kiln Wash:

50 gm Alumina Hydrate
25 gm EPK
25 gm Silica

Brush on the kiln shelf. It feels powdery when dry but that's OK. This
is the best kiln wash that I have ever used. It does not flake off and
lasts a looong time.

Enjoy.......Marilyn in really, really snowy Ailsa Craig, five more inches
and counting

______________________________________________________________________________

Robert A. Curfman on mon 2 dec 96

Marilyn,

I stopped using kiln wash over 4 years ago. One would want to have some
experience with the glazes they are using before firing without a kiln
wash. I have had few problems with glaze runs, because I know how our
glazes will react on various forms. I try to keep track of the way shelves
where fired last, then invert to help prevent warping. If you get a run,
just grind off the bead with an angle grinder. Where leather gloves,
goggles and a respirator to prevent inhaling of dust particles from the
glaze. Has proved to very effective, even in the classroom shared by 26
other student potters.If I plan on testing new glazes, I will bring out
some of the old kiln washed shelves just in case.

Rob

Don Jung on tue 25 mar 97

Hello, hope you're all enjoying a nice start to Spring.

I'm taking a short break and thought I would share my experience with
this issue as I had a problem with it and had it resolved with help
through Clayart.

The kiln wash that we now use is a combination of two recipes that
originated from Clayarters. One from Tom Buck...many thanks and the
other passed down through many emails through Marilyn for Robert Tetu's
kiln wash. These recipes are as follows:

Robert Tetu's Kiln Wash:

50 gm Alumina Hydrate
25 gm EPK
25 gm Silica

Tom Buck's Kiln Wash:

Alumina hydrate 32
EPK 35
Kyanite (35 mesh) 17
Silica Sand 16

Combo Kiln Wash:

Alumina hydrate 40
EPK 30
Kyanite (35 mesh) 8
Silica 22

Robert Tetu's kiln wash is excellent; very smooth, lasts a long time and
is likely what a really good commercial kiln wash is like. Only one
problem, stays on so well that glaze drips and fine spray was tough to
remove.
Tom Buck's kiln wash is also excellent, but is very coarse and rough
with Silica Sand and Kyanite granules. This I found extremely good for
removing glaze drips and glaze 'spray' (cobalt glazes). It seemed a bit
too coarse though...so we tried a combination of the two. Well, it's
working out quite well. Holds on great but can be rubbed easily with a
silicon carbide brick to remove glaze bits. It also fills in any
irregularities and the rubbing action of the brick gets it nice and
even. Happy to say that I haven't had to chisel or grind the shelves
anymore. Haven't had any flaking or peeling, so we're just re-applying
over rubbed thin or exposed areas. By the way, don't forget to rub and
clean the underside of the shelves as dirty posts transfer bits to the
underside which in another firing will fall into some pots. Yeah, I'll
get around to cleaning the posts one day too...

Have fun at NCECA...see ya there next year :)
--
Don Jung
Kensington Pottery
Vancouver BC Canada
email: dojun@axionet.com

millie carpenter on wed 26 mar 97

Hi group

I have been using a kiln wash that has been flaking off in large
patches. over time my shelves have started to look like 20 miles of bad
road with temporary pot hole patches. before I start to use one of the
newer better formulations, something needs to be done to these shelves.
What is a good way to smooth the surface? or do I just pull off what I
can using a putty knife and just start using the new wash?

thanks

millie in maryland where commet viewing is intermittent but spectacular!

Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on wed 26 mar 97

Dear Don, thnaks for you kiln wash recipe. 2 questions -
What is Kyanite and may I use Calcined Alumina instead
of Alumina Hydrate? TIA Ralph in PE SA hoping to hear
soon that Toni has arrived back in SA safely.

Sarah & Glenn Hand on tue 29 jul 97

Hello, I have recently bought new kiln shelves. I am looking for a
very good kiln wash. I have had problems with pots sticking to the
shelves. This is after making sure there isn't any glaze left on bottoms
etc. Any advice would be appreciated. Sarah - new to listserv.

stevemills on wed 30 jul 97

Hi Sarah
2 parts by wieght Alumima Hydrate, 1 ditto Kaolin, mix with water and
paint on, wiping off the edges. re-coat when it starts to look "thin".
You'll need to re-stir between brush loads, this mix settles at the
speed of light.
Steve

In message , Sarah & Glenn Hand writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello, I have recently bought new kiln shelves. I am looking for a
>very good kiln wash. I have had problems with pots sticking to the
>shelves. This is after making sure there isn't any glaze left on bottoms
>etc. Any advice would be appreciated. Sarah - new to listserv.
>

--
Steve Mills
@Bath Potters Supplies
Dorset Close
Bath
BA2 3RF
UK
Tel:(44) (0)1225 337046
Fax:(44) (0)1225 462712

Ron Roy on fri 1 aug 97

I concur with Steve here - I use ball clay and alumina and spray it on -
nice pebble surface. Gotta keep mixing it though - well - shaking it while
I spray. The more vitrified the body the more sticking. The best material
to leave out is silica - porcelain just loves to hook up with silica.


>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi Sarah
>2 parts by wieght Alumima Hydrate, 1 ditto Kaolin, mix with water and
>paint on, wiping off the edges. re-coat when it starts to look "thin".
>You'll need to re-stir between brush loads, this mix settles at the
>speed of light.
>Steve
>
>In message , Sarah & Glenn Hand writes
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Hello, I have recently bought new kiln shelves. I am looking for a
>>very good kiln wash. I have had problems with pots sticking to the
>>shelves. This is after making sure there isn't any glaze left on bottoms
>>etc. Any advice would be appreciated. Sarah - new to listserv.

Ron Roy
Toronto, Canada
Evenings, call 416 439 2621
Fax, 416 438 7849
Studio: 416-752-7862.
Email ronroy@astral.magic.ca
Home page http://digitalfire.com/education/people/ronroy.htm

Talbott on sat 2 aug 97

If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
one regret,,,
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I concur with Steve here - I use ball clay and alumina and spray it on -
>nice pebble surface. Gotta keep mixing it though - well - shaking it while
>I spray. The more vitrified the body the more sticking. The best material
>to leave out is silica - porcelain just loves to hook up with silica.
>
>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Hi Sarah
>>2 parts by wieght Alumima Hydrate, 1 ditto Kaolin, mix with water and
>>paint on, wiping off the edges. re-coat when it starts to look "thin".
>>You'll need to re-stir between brush loads, this mix settles at the
>>speed of light.
>>Steve
>>
>>In message , Sarah & Glenn Hand writes
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>Hello, I have recently bought new kiln shelves. I am looking for a
>>>very good kiln wash. I have had problems with pots sticking to the
>>>shelves. This is after making sure there isn't any glaze left on bottoms
>>>etc. Any advice would be appreciated. Sarah - new to listserv.
>
>Ron Roy
>Toronto, Canada
>Evenings, call 416 439 2621
>Fax, 416 438 7849
>Studio: 416-752-7862.
>Email ronroy@astral.magic.ca
>Home page http://digitalfire.com/education/people/ronroy.htm

1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm

Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net

"MAKE IT HAPPEN...!!!"

Susan Goldstein on sun 3 aug 97

Hate to be the first one to tell you but I tried Lee's kiln wash and
compared it to some of the recipes that have been posted.
It did not fare any better with cone 6 oxidation glazes that tend to run.

Regards,
Susan

LINDA BLOSSOM on mon 4 aug 97

Dear Susan,

Here is the conclusion that I have come to about kiln wash. The
traditional mix does provide release - however, you have to worry about
flaking and flipping the shelves is not possible without a lot of work each
time you fire. Lee's doesn't flake - however, it also doesn't release. So
I don't know if it is better than nothing. I have now done my shelves with
ITC. It doesn't release either, but I get heat radiated back to the pieces
and better fuel efficiency, especially in the electric kiln. If I have a
glaze that I suspect of running, I put a small flat disk with regular wash
on it under that piece. I have some of these already made and fired. I
don't use the alumina hydrate on the shelves because the possibility of it
falling between the half shelves and onto pieces below. There is no
perfect solution, I just had to pick the best for me.

Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd.
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-539-7912
blossom@lightlink.com
http://www.artscape.com

Sue Davis on tue 5 aug 97

Wow! I feel so niave. I just use the kiln wash I mentioned, coat the shelves
and fire. It does flake a little, I do Majolica, so I bursh the shelves each
time before firing and this takes care of it. I haven't bought kiln wash for
20 years. Maybe I'm becoming out dated or something. I never have any problem
with releasing even firing to cone 6. Are you firing hotter than that? Thanks
for your reply. Sue in Sunny S. Florida.

Michelle H. Lowe on tue 5 aug 97

> I have now done my shelves with
> ITC. It doesn't release either, but I get heat radiated back to the pieces
> and better fuel efficiency, especially in the electric kiln.

I wonder, if you use ITC on your shelves, is it possible to use kiln
wash as well?

Mishy, waiting for her shipment of ITC and dreaming of fuel
savings...
Michelle Lowe, potter in the Phoenix desert \|/ |
mishlowe@indirect.com -O- | |
mishlowe@aztec.asu.edu /|\ | | |
|_|_|
http://www.amug.org/~mishlowe ____ |
-\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>

Marni Turkel on fri 8 aug 97

Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:

>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott

A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.

With regrets,
Marni Turkel
Stony Point Ceramic Design

Talbott on sat 9 aug 97

Geez!!!! How one could spend an hour mixing up a gallon of settled kiln
was is beyond me... 5 minutes MAX... just use a sturdy piece of wood and
mix it like you would a gallon of paint.. Power source- a little muscle..
All kiln washes are suspensions and will settle out quickly... Longer to
dry? Not from my experiences... Lee's has served me well and I will keep
using it until I find something better...

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:
>
>>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott
>
>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.
>
>With regrets,
>Marni Turkel
>Stony Point Ceramic Design

1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!

Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net

Jennifer Boyer on sat 9 aug 97

Hi All,

I had the same experience with Lee's. I left it sitting for a long time
before using it, maybe 6 months,and opened up the container to find a
congealed mass. I had to cut the container off it, and beat it to death in
a bucket. Smelled ghastly too. It finally became usable but i wonder, how
is the stuff when you use it promptly? I liked the end result, but what is
it that congeals? It seems to loosen up with mixing.....
Jennifer in VT about to fire my newly ITC'd kiln(36 cu ft softbrick using
30-40 gallons of propane to cone 10)

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:
>
>>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott
>
>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.
>
>With regrets,
>Marni Turkel
>Stony Point Ceramic Design


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, Vt. 05602
jboyer@plainfield.bypass.com

Talbott on sat 9 aug 97

....continued... If the wash is really packed to the bottom of the
container then just place your hand into the mix and break up the settled
material until it is separated and is no longer caked all together,,, At
most this should take 10 minutes if not less... Your hand or hands will
work better and faster than using a mixing stick... When you apply the
Lee's frequently stir the mix as it does quickly settle out.. The lack of
flaking is the primary reason I use the Lee's... as I said one tiny flake
of wash onto a plate or platter and there goes $30 to $150 in lost sales...


>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:
>
>>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott
>
>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.
>
>With regrets,
>Marni Turkel
>Stony Point Ceramic Design

1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!

Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net

James Dapogny on sat 9 aug 97

>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.

Hi,
I'm concerned about this too and I have other questions, as well.
1)Since the Lee's settled quickly and ..well, with a vengeance, can a
suspender be added? Bentonite? Or does it just require constant attention?

2) How do others perceive it to be different from ITC 100? Are they both
non-flaking kiln washes with some variation in the formulas, or do they
differ considerably?
3) Can Lee's be used with ITC 100? Can it be used with ITC 200 if the
latter is being used to fill in chinks in the kiln shelves?
4) In a group with a mixed bag of problems including students and runny
glazes, what is the best solution?
Help!! confused about all this..
---Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor

Karen Gringhuis on sat 9 aug 97

Jennifer - I'm not sure there is a "promptly." I am one of those
who took 1 hr. to stir it up the first time (I don't care what
Marshall says!) & haven't opened the bucket since. I am having
doubts about the product now - my main goal of kiln wash is to
release pots. Karen Gringhuis

Talbott on sun 10 aug 97

Use you hands... like dig in with your fingers and squeeze the By Jesus out
of the stuff and it crumbles... like sugar that has formed lumps... takes a
little muscle but as a potter you can do it!

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Jennifer - I'm not sure there is a "promptly." I am one of those
>who took 1 hr. to stir it up the first time (I don't care what
>Marshall says!) & haven't opened the bucket since. I am having
>doubts about the product now - my main goal of kiln wash is to
>release pots. Karen Gringhuis

1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!

Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net

Marni Turkel on sun 10 aug 97

The first gallon of Lee's I bought was opened the day it arrived and it was
hard-caked on the bottom. The second gallon I left sitting on the shelf for
about a month, but it was caked as if it had settled sitting on its side,
and I had it sitting upright, so it was caked before I got it. The cake is
particle aligned as if from deflocculant. When I returned the next day, it
had settled some and congealed (about 3/4" on the bottom). Even that didn't
push me over the edge. All of this hassle with the kiln wash was in
preparation for sanding (with coarse sand paper and a big disk sander) and
flipping shelves that were beginning to warp. The test of Lee's wash I did
after a few firings to cone 6 sanded off easily, but after many firings, it
doesn't seem to want to come off. That pushed me over the edge. I shouldn't
have to work this hard for a product that is supposed to make my life
easier.

Marni Turkel
Stony Point Ceramic Design
Where technical difficulties are a dime a dozen this week

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi All,
>
>I had the same experience with Lee's. I left it sitting for a long time
>before using it, maybe 6 months,and opened up the container to find a
>congealed mass. I had to cut the container off it, and beat it to death in
>a bucket. Smelled ghastly too. It finally became usable but i wonder, how
>is the stuff when you use it promptly? I liked the end result, but what is
>it that congeals? It seems to loosen up with mixing.....
>Jennifer in VT about to fire my newly ITC'd kiln(36 cu ft softbrick using
>30-40 gallons of propane to cone 10)
>Jennifer Boyer
>Thistle Hill Pottery
>Montpelier, Vt. 05602
>jboyer@plainfield.bypass.com

>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:
>>
>>>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>>>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>>>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott
>>
>>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.
>>
>>With regrets,
>>Marni Turkel
>>Stony Point Ceramic Design

Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on sun 10 aug 97

Marshall I disagree, not all kiln washes settle out. I got
one from a fellow clayarter and guess what it does not
settle out, much to my delight and surprise. It is a
combination of Robert Tetu's and Tom Buck's kiln
washes. Don Jung gave the recipe to me. His email is
Don Jung[SMTP:dojun@axionet.com]. I think one should
ask him personally for the recipe. I do not think it would
be correct for me to just give it out. Maybe it is just our
local versions of the ingredients that do not settle out,
perhaps Don could comment on it. Good luck all with the
kiln washes. There are a few of us meeting today at
about 13h00 EST in Clayarters, please join us, it would
be great to chat to you all Ralph in PE SA

Don Jung on mon 11 aug 97

Hi all,
happened to be browsing through the clayart archives (currently off the
list) and noticed the discussion on kiln washes has popped up
again...also mentioned my name, so I thought I'd better send one in. No
need to ask me for the recipe...I got it from others on Clayart and
submitted it to clayart for all to use. Thanks for thinking of me
though. Note that the three formula have different properties, and
depending on what you're requirements are, hopefully one will work for
you. The EPK is likely what keeps it nicely in suspension.

thx Don Jung

From way back...by the way, tons of archived posts from Clayart and
other Newsgroups can be searched for info such as this. I had to since
I ditched this email and didn't want to type it all over again. Go to
http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml or
http://www.findmail.com/listsaver/clayart/

enjoy;)
---------------------

The kiln wash that we now use is a combination of two
recipes that originated from Clayarters. One from Tom
Buck...many thanks and the other passed down through
many emails through Marilyn for Robert Tetu's kiln wash.
These recipes are as follows:

Robert Tetu's Kiln Wash:

50 gm Alumina Hydrate
25 gm EPK
25 gm Silica

Tom Buck's Kiln Wash:

Alumina hydrate 32
EPK 35
Kyanite (35 mesh) 17
Silica Sand 16

Combo Kiln Wash:

Alumina hydrate 40
EPK 30
Kyanite (35 mesh) 8
Silica 22

Robert Tetu's kiln wash is excellent; very smooth, lasts a
long time and is likely what a really good commercial kiln
wash is like. Only one problem, stays on so well that
glaze drips and fine spray was tough to remove. Tom
Buck's kiln wash is also excellent, but is very coarse and
rough with Silica Sand and Kyanite granules. This I
found extremely good for removing glaze drips and glaze
'spray' (cobalt glazes). It seemed a bit too coarse
though...so we tried a combination of the two. Well, it's
working out quite well. Holds on great but can be
rubbed easily with a silicon carbide brick to remove glaze
bits. It also fills in any irregularities and the rubbing
action of the brick gets it nice and even. Happy to say
that I haven't had to chisel or grind the shelves anymore.
Haven't had any flaking or peeling, so we're just
re-applying over rubbed thin or exposed areas. By the
way, don't forget to rub and clean the underside of the
shelves as dirty posts transfer bits to the underside
which in another firing will fall into some pots. Yeah, I'll
get around to cleaning the posts one day too...

----------------------------Original
message---------------------------- Marshall I disagree, not all kiln
washes settle out. I got one from a fellow clayarter and guess what it
does not settle out, much to my delight and surprise. It is a
combination
of Robert Tetu's and Tom Buck's kiln
washes. Don Jung gave the recipe to me. His email is Don
Jung[SMTP:@axionet.com]. I think one should ask him personally for
the recipe. I do not think it would be correct for me to just give it
out.
Maybe it is just our local versions of the ingredients that do not
settle
out, perhaps Don could comment on it. Good luck all with the kiln
washes. There are a few of us meeting today at about 13h00 EST in
Clayarters, please join us, it would be great to chat to you all Ralph
in
PE SA

K9Akela on mon 11 aug 97

We have found "Lee's Kiln Wash" to be the best by far of several tryed
over 11 years. The only bad thing about it...is you have to get it from
Howard Axner :o( (Axner Pottery Supply...Ovedio Fla...call the 1-800
yellow pages). It does not flake...and it protects the shelves well from
glaze drips...good luck!

Dan C Tarro on tue 12 aug 97

I am not sure how fluid this "Lee's" kiln wash is, but if it is fluid
like paint is, try this: An old trick that we used when we would take an
old gallon of paint from storage. If the container will seal well, try
placing it upside down in a plastic lined box in your car trunk a week or
so before you will need it. The driving will swash the water around and
remix it for you. Works for paint and may work with kiln wash. Works
especially well on those Mn. gravel roads.

Fran Newquist on tue 12 aug 97

Axner received a bad batch of Lee's Kiln Wash. They were working on
replacements when the UPS strike occurred. Call Howard Axner or any one
working in Customer Service and let them know the problems you are
experiencing. We did and received a very good reception and quick response.

Good Luck. Fran, Tin Barn Pottery at Manassas Clay, Virginia


At 08:54 AM 8/8/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Catching up on a few days of CLAYART I came across this post about kiln wash:
>
>>If your time means anything then just buy the Lee's Incredible Kiln Wash
>>from Axner.. I have turned several people on to this and I have yet to hear
>>one regret,,,Marshall Talbott
>
>A few months ago (after seeing it mentioned on the list) I tried Lee's wash
>and had mixed feelings. It was badly settled into a hard cake on the
>bottom. Called the company and was told just mix it up and it will be fine.
>I find I have to keep it tightly covered, as it does not mix up again if
>allowed to dry. It takes a long time to dry on the shelf before I can load
>the kiln. I finished that gallon and decided to order more. I opened my
>second gallon today, and spent over an hour with a big screwdriver and a
>hand blender getting the settled mass (about 2/3 of the gallon was hard
>caked) to mix in with the thin liquid. It appeared to be settling rapidly
>when I left work. When I consider the high cost of the product, the hour of
>my time that I wasted, and the cost of replacing the hand blender I burned
>up, I'll go for the alumina hydrate/clay recipe next.
>
>With regrets,
>Marni Turkel
>Stony Point Ceramic Design
>
>

Howard on wed 13 aug 97

DEAR CLAYARTERS,

OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS I HAVE PAID VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE DISCUSSION
OF BAD KILN WASH. LEE'S KILN WASH HAS BEEN ON THE MARKET FOR AROUND 2-3
YEARS AND HAS BEEN UNDER CONTINUAL DEVELOPMENT BY LEE. THERE WERE SOME GOOD
BATCHES AND SOME BAD BATCHES THAT WE RECEIVED FROM OUR SUPPLIER. MOST
RECENTLY SOME OF YOU HAVE RECIEVED KILN WASH THAT WAS MISSING ITS
SUSPENSION AGENT. ALL OF THE PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT AND THE RECIPE
AND QUALITY CONTROL ARE NOW CONSISTANT. WE HAVE ALREADY REPLACED ALL OF
THE BAD KILN WASH OF WHICH WE ARE AWARE, BUT WE HAVE OBVIOUSLY MISSED SOME
OF YOU. IF ANYONE HAS RECIEVED BAD KILN WASH PLEASE CONTACT AXNER POTTERY
SUPPLY AT 1-800-843-7057 AND WE WILL REPLACE IT WITH A NEW BATCH OF LEE'S
KILN WASH THAT I GARANTEE WILL PLEASE YOU. ALL BATCHES THAT ARE MIXED
PROPERLY DO GET RAVE REVEIWS.

SINCERELY,
AUSTIN @ AXNER

Barbara Long on sun 17 aug 97

At the Handcraft Center where I apprentice,we have a slight problem. The
distributer that we use has not been able to find any alumina hydrate.
We have tried using the 50/50 silica/epk for kiln wash but it flakes so
bad in ^10 reduction that we would really like an alternative recipe (or
some hint as to what we may be doing wrong in mixing the silica/epk.Has
anyone else had trouble finding alumina hydrate?Any help that may be
offered will be appreciated. (Please keep in mind that budget
limitations will be a factor.)
Thanks
Barbara in Lyme,Ct.
potluck@snet.net

JaneDoeVII on mon 18 aug 97

Does anyone have any suggestions re: kiln wash. Presently I am using the
old 50/50 formula of ballclay and silica but I have been getting alot of
flaking off prior to firing. I have heard that the mesh size of flint
from the manufactures has changed and could be causing the problem. I
have also heard that instead of silica, alumina hydrate can be
substituted. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
Angel DiCosola
JaneDoeVII@AOL.com

Edward D. Cowell on tue 19 aug 97

Back in March Don Jung from Vancouver BC posted this kiln wash which was a
combination of two recipes (Robert Tetu's and Tom Buck's)

40 Alumina hydrate
30 EPK
8 Kyaniate (35 mesh)
22 Silica

Don Jung said " It holds on great but can be rubbed easily with a silicon
carbide brick to remove glaze bits. It also fills in any irregularities and
the rubbing action of the brick gets it nice and even. Happy to say that I
haven't had to chisel or grind the shelves anymore. Haven't had any flaking
or peeling, so we're just re-applying over rubbed thin or exposed areas."

Haven't gotten around to trying it out myself - but plan to someday.

Laurie Cowell,
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Talbott on wed 20 aug 97

Jane... you must have just started subscribing to Clayart since we just
completeled a long discussion on this topic... I recommend that you try
Lee's Kiln wash from Axner Pottery Supply... It does not release easily but
it also does not flake.. If you have hard kiln shelves like nitride bonded
SiC shelves then you could probably use it successfully... Marshall

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Does anyone have any suggestions re: kiln wash. Presently I am using the
>old 50/50 formula of ballclay and silica but I have been getting alot of
>flaking off prior to firing. I have heard that the mesh size of flint
>from the manufactures has changed and could be causing the problem. I
>have also heard that instead of silica, alumina hydrate can be
>substituted. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thank you in advance,
>Angel DiCosola
>JaneDoeVII@AOL.com

1ST ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1997)
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
2nd Annual Clayarters' Gallery details will be forth coming!!!

Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
WBS Live Chat Room, Sat Nites 10 PM EDT & Sun Afternoons at
1 PM EDT Private Room: Clayarters E-MAIL: clupus@ime.net

Kollin Baker on wed 20 aug 97

Ive heard the same about Alumina. I am also having FLAKING problems let me
know too of some one tells you a new improved recipe.
Kollin


Pi Pottery and Design

David Hendley on wed 20 aug 97

>Does anyone have any suggestions re: kiln wash.


50/50 by weight EPK kaolin and hydrated alumina.
I would always use EPK rather than ball clay because it has more alumina
and is more refractory.
This subject has been discussed fequently on CLayart for the last month. Go
back and take a look.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas

Barbara Long on thu 21 aug 97

Kollin Baker wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Ive heard the same about Alumina. I am also having FLAKING problems let me
> know too of some one tells you a new improved recipe.
> Kollin
>
> Pi Pottery and Design
Kollin
I did not get a new improved recipe for kiln wash not requiring alumina
hydrate.I did however receive several suggestions to try other
distributers for al hydrate (which our Master Potter has done). I also
received a helpful hint from Robert Compton to apply the 50/50
Silica/EPK in thin coats. I do believe that this was our problem causing
the flaking in ^10 reduction.
Barbara in Lyme,CT

PhyB on wed 11 mar 98

Dear Clayarters,

I've never paid much attention to kiln wash, just slopped on whatever local
suppliers sold in a bag labeled kiln wash.

But recently I've been finding little flakes in my glaze so now I'm
interested.

What to use? How to apply? What consistency? How to get the flakey stuff
off?

PhyB
PhyB@AOL.com

Tim Stowell on thu 12 mar 98

I may be crazy, stupid or both , but, I do not use kiln wash at all on my
shelves anymore. In the past I have found that kiln wash flaking is
annoying you can't flip your shelves to keep them from warping. If glaze
does get on the kiln wash it still trashes your shelf. It's a royal pain,
takes time, and produces hazardous dust to scrape the shelves clean. I
have found that if I am careful in glazing and placing ware I don't get
glaze on the shelf to begin with. The occasional small drop is easily
avoided and for me the "time" savings are worth the potential cost of a
new shelf. For glaze tests I place them on a bisque slab thingy or use
some old shelves that still have kiln wash on them. I know many people
will disagree with me, but, that's life...work's for me.
Remember time is money.

Tim

Tim Stowell Gerard Stowell Pottery
Stacey Gerard 290 River Street
tstwll@juno.com Troy, NY 12180
(518)272-0983 www.trytroy.org/gerard/





_____________________________________________________________________
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Cheryl L Litman on thu 12 mar 98

Marivn Flowerman sent me this recipe - told me he loves the following
mix, I haven't tried it yet.

Kiln wash:
epk - 2 parts by weight
flint - 2 parts
alumina hydrate - 1 part

Mix up fairly thick and apply 2-3 coats.

He says he's had no flaking or cracking and that it scrapes off easily if
needed.

Cheryl Litman
Somerset, NJ
email: cheryllitman@juno.com

On Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:50:16 EST PhyB writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Dear Clayarters,
>
>I've never paid much attention to kiln wash, just slopped on whatever
>local
>suppliers sold in a bag labeled kiln wash.
>
>But recently I've been finding little flakes in my glaze so now I'm
>interested.
>
>What to use? How to apply? What consistency? How to get the flakey
>stuff
>off?
>
>PhyB
>PhyB@AOL.com
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Elizabeth A. Ringus on fri 13 mar 98

Tim - I'm with you! I have been firing pots for over 20 years now and after
my first two years of dealing with kiln wash, I had enough!! I ruined more
pottery and kiln shelves with the kiln wash in those two years than I have
for the remaining 20 years without kiln washed shelves or coatings of any
kind in my kiln. I wax carefully, stack and stilt carefully and the
occasional drips now and then sand off easily with my dremmel tools. My
shelves are warp-free and I have pottery that comes out of the kiln with no
surprises stuck to the surface.
Liz
SC wind chill -7 F today! Sorry folks, peaches will be few and expensive
this year.
In case you didn't know, South Carolina, produces more peaches than Georgia,
the "peach state". My friend farms over 800 acres of peach trees and that's
only one farm!

Tim Stowell wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I may be crazy, stupid or both , but, I do not use kiln wash at all on my
> shelves anymore. In the past I have found that kiln wash flaking is
> annoying you can't flip your shelves to keep them from warping. If glaze
> does get on the kiln wash it still trashes your shelf. It's a royal pain,
> takes time, and produces hazardous dust to scrape the shelves clean. I
> have found that if I am careful in glazing and placing ware I don't get
> glaze on the shelf to begin with. The occasional small drop is easily
> avoided and for me the "time" savings are worth the potential cost of a
> new shelf. For glaze tests I place them on a bisque slab thingy or use
> some old shelves that still have kiln wash on them. I know many people
> will disagree with me, but, that's life...work's for me.
> Remember time is money.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Stowell Gerard Stowell Pottery
> Stacey Gerard 290 River Street
> tstwll@juno.com Troy, NY 12180
> (518)272-0983 www.trytroy.org/gerard/
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

David Hewitt on fri 13 mar 98

I find it much easier and cleaner to use silica sand instead of batt
wash. I gave up using batt wash many years ago now. My firing is to cone
9 in oxidation and use both stoneware and porcelain clays.
David
In message , PhyB writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Dear Clayarters,
>
>I've never paid much attention to kiln wash, just slopped on whatever local
>suppliers sold in a bag labeled kiln wash.
>
>But recently I've been finding little flakes in my glaze so now I'm
>interested.
>
>What to use? How to apply? What consistency? How to get the flakey stuff
>off?
>
>PhyB
>PhyB@AOL.com
>

--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery ,
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP6 1DQ, UK. Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
Own Web site http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
IMC Web site http://digitalfire.com/education/people/hewitt.htm

Connie Christensen on sun 15 mar 98

Tim

You're not crazy - I don't kiln wash my shelves either. It makes it much
easier to flip the shelves and not worry about kiln wash falling on pots
below.

What I do is mix equal parts alumina and flour (just regular baking
flour) to a thin paste and brush a thin layer on a board that has a nice
smooth surface. Just mix a small amount - it doesn't keep well. Before
placing the pot on the kiln shelf I set it on the board so there is a
thin layer (you don't need much) on the pot where its going to meet the
shelf. I use porcelain, reduction fired to cone 10 and this process is
just so that the porcelain does not stick to the unwashed kiln shelf - I
don't think there is a problem with this if you use stoneware (someone
let me know if I'm wrong about the stoneware).

This will not help with glaze runs. I just try to be careful when
glazing and if I have tests I leave a lot of room at the bottom of the
test piece. If I'm really suspicious of a glaze test I put it on a piece
of broken kiln shelf.

Connie
Denver, Colorado

carrie or peter jacobson on wed 4 nov 98

Hello experts: Opinions on the best kiln wash recipe for a mid-range
electric oxidation firing? Have been to the archives, and need help sorting.

Thanks in advance,

Carrie


Carrie Jacobson
Pawcatuck, CT
mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com

Mike Gordon on thu 5 nov 98

Hi,
I use half and half by weight of silica and epk. Mike

Edward Cowell on thu 5 nov 98

This kiln wash works at any temperature - oxidation and reduction. Can
also be used to patch chips in shelves.

40 Alumina
30 EPK
8 Kyanite (35 mesh)
22 Silica

Laurie Cowell

Earl Brunner on fri 6 nov 98

I use the same one that I use for high fire,
60 alumina hydrate
30 epk
10 bentonite
works great!
Earl Brunner

carrie or peter jacobson wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello experts: Opinions on the best kiln wash recipe for a mid-range
> electric oxidation firing? Have been to the archives, and need help sorting.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Carrie
>
> Carrie Jacobson
> Pawcatuck, CT
> mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com

Tish Cook on fri 6 nov 98

Hi, I use half alumina hydrate and kaolin for my high fire shelves and
it works pretty well.
Tish Cook

The Cincinnata on tue 25 may 99

I have been having some trouble with the kiln wash that I use. It is an =
Amaco
kiln wash that is out of a box. It flakes off after one bisque fire. I =
have
heard that equal parts of china clay and flint make a nice kiln wash? Is =
there
some other recipes that I could try? Any information would help.

Reuben M. Torres
hsart=40schs.k12.mn.us

Andrew Buck on wed 26 may 99

Reuben,

You do not usually need kiln wash in the bisque firing so don't put it on.
The only reason I know for putting kilnwash on a shelf is to catch glaze
drips ( not a problem in the bisque firing) or make pots less likely to
stick to the shelves. If you just want to keep your pots from sticking to
the shelves in the bisque, then just put the silica on the shelf as a dry
powder. After the firing all you have to do is brush the powder off the
shelf, into a bucket, and save it for the next firing. If you need to
kilnwash the shelves for the glaze firing, there are other mixes that you
could use, but, all the mixtures I know of require maintenance before each
glaze firing. Just something that you just have to get used to.

Andy Buck
Raincreek Pottery
Port Orchard, Washington

On Tue, 25 May 1999, The Cincinnata wrote:

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have been having some trouble with the kiln wash that I use. It is an Amaco
> kiln wash that is out of a box. It flakes off after one bisque fire. I have
> heard that equal parts of china clay and flint make a nice kiln wash? Is the
> some other recipes that I could try? Any information would help.
>
> Reuben M. Torres
> hsart@schs.k12.mn.us
>

dave morrison on wed 26 may 99

ive always used 50/50 kaolin and flint. you want it to come away from the
shelf to a degree, otherwise glaze that would get on it, would be just as
stuck to the shelf.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Cincinnata
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:30 AM
Subject: kiln wash


>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have been having some trouble with the kiln wash that I use. It is an
Amaco
>kiln wash that is out of a box. It flakes off after one bisque fire. I
have
>heard that equal parts of china clay and flint make a nice kiln wash? Is
there
>some other recipes that I could try? Any information would help.
>
>Reuben M. Torres
>hsart@schs.k12.mn.us
>

Tim Lynch on thu 27 may 99

What about using ITC 100, as mentioned by Nils Lou in the latest Ceramics
Monthly, page104?
--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
1117 Tedford St SE
East Wenatchee, WA 98802-5254
509-884-8303

Westside High School
1521 Ninth St
Wenatchee, WA 98801
509-663-7947
clayman@internet.wsd.wednet.edu
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/1613

----------
>From: dave morrison
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Re: kiln wash
>Date: Wed, May 26, 1999, 9:51 AM
>

> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ive always used 50/50 kaolin and flint. you want it to come away from the
> shelf to a degree, otherwise glaze that would get on it, would be just as
> stuck to the shelf.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Cincinnata
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:30 AM
> Subject: kiln wash
>
>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>I have been having some trouble with the kiln wash that I use. It is an
> Amaco
>>kiln wash that is out of a box. It flakes off after one bisque fire. I
> have
>>heard that equal parts of china clay and flint make a nice kiln wash? Is
> there
>>some other recipes that I could try? Any information would help.
>>
>>Reuben M. Torres
>>hsart@schs.k12.mn.us
>>

Todd Nelson Potter@inter-linc.net on fri 28 may 99

A good kiln wash from Tom Coleman is Alumnia Hydrate 6|
| Epk 3
Bentonite, 1
Apply with alow nap paint roller. I have had great results a ^10
Pushing mud in Mo. Todd

Linda Blossom on sat 29 may 99

I use itc 100 on my shelves but not as a release agent, more for the radiant
properties. I don't wash the shelves since I want to flip them in each
firing. If I think a glaze will run, I will use 50:50 wash (silica and epk)
on a piece of refractory and place that under the piece I am firing.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-539-7912
blossom@twcny.rr.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lynch
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash


>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What about using ITC 100, as mentioned by Nils Lou in the latest Ceramics
>Monthly, page104?
>--
>Tim Lynch
>The Clay Man
>1117 Tedford St SE
>East Wenatchee, WA 98802-5254
>509-884-8303
>
>Westside High School
>1521 Ninth St
>Wenatchee, WA 98801
>509-663-7947
>clayman@internet.wsd.wednet.edu
>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/1613
>
>----------
>>From: dave morrison
>>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>>Subject: Re: kiln wash
>>Date: Wed, May 26, 1999, 9:51 AM
>>
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> ive always used 50/50 kaolin and flint. you want it to come away from
the
>> shelf to a degree, otherwise glaze that would get on it, would be just as
>> stuck to the shelf.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Cincinnata
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>> Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:30 AM
>> Subject: kiln wash
>>
>>
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>I have been having some trouble with the kiln wash that I use. It is an
>> Amaco
>>>kiln wash that is out of a box. It flakes off after one bisque fire. I
>> have
>>>heard that equal parts of china clay and flint make a nice kiln wash?
Is
>> there
>>>some other recipes that I could try? Any information would help.
>>>
>>>Reuben M. Torres
>>>hsart@schs.k12.mn.us
>>>
>

Wade Blocker on wed 5 jan 00

Dear Arnold, I use the following kiln wash recipe which comes from
Studio Potter December l980.

5 parts Kaolin
5 parts silica
2 parts alumina hydrate


I also have the following recipies:kiln wash (Lakofsky, CM November
l972) cone 9

50% flint
25% kaolin
25% gold Art clay or AP Green fire clay


Kiln wash cone l0 CM Sept. l977

pyrophyllite 20
kaolin 40
flint 40



kiln wash Frank Hamer

Kaolin l0%
Zirconium silicate 90%

Mia in chilly, but sunny ABQ

Joyce Lee on wed 5 jan 00

All of my new shelves plus the pieces of old shelves are sprayed with
ITC, as is my kiln furniture. You'll understand what a change the ITC
has caused for me when I tell you that I've only been in clay for four
years and have MANY shelves that qualify as old ... being warped,
scraped and with majorly massive holes where I've chiseled out the
glaze. I'm firing with more success now, too, as well as providing a
more do-able glaze application ... but the biggest change has been the
ITC and elimination of kiln wash, which used to mean, for me, that I
could only use one side of my shelves. Now if Alice would just promote
an ITC coating for aging potter bodies, I'd start saving my pennies
immediately ....

Joyce
In the Mojave

friedlover on sun 6 aug 00

Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
Thanks. Rhonda

'Chapatsu' Rob Uechi on mon 7 aug 00

On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, friedlover wrote:

> Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
> Thanks. Rhonda
>

Here at the UW, we use 50% silica and 50% alumina for regular firings, and
for salt firings, switch from using silica to EPK.

DeLana Hornbeck on mon 7 aug 00

Hi Rhonda,
Kiln wash.....half silica; half kaolin......parts by weight. mix well and
add H2o to desired thickness. I fire cone 10.

----- Original Message -----
From: friedlover
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 2:28 PM
Subject: kiln wash


Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
Thanks. Rhonda

____________________________________________________________________________
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philrogers pottery on mon 7 aug 00

Alumina Hydrate 3
Ball Clay 1.

For salt kilns add a small percentage of fine Silicon Carbide or Zirconium
Ox.


----- Original Message -----
From: friedlover
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 8:28 PM
Subject: kiln wash


Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
Thanks. Rhonda

____________________________________________________________________________
__
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settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

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Tom Buck on tue 8 aug 00

Rhonda:
Like others, I began coating my kiln shelves with 50 EPK/50
Alumina hydrate (aka trihydrate)... I didn't then use Flint/Silica/Quartz
because at first I only had the very fine stuff; now I have 50 mesh silica
sand. In highfire long soak conditions, one should limit the use of silica
sand.
Some few years back, I did some different mixes and found that the
following worked best for me:
Kiln Wash, C6+ oxidation
35 Kaolin (eg, EPK)
32 Alumina trihydrate
17 Kyanite (33 or 50 mesh)
16 Silica sand (50 mesh).

The combination of coarse and fine particles gave a better adhesion of the
wash to the shelf's surface. And the kyanite seemed to bind the fired
materials into a hardpan. This stuff goes through many firings and can be
easily "repaired" if some glaze dribbles onto the shelf.
Another mix that Robert Tetu, who fires mostly C10+ reduction,
recommends is:
50 Alumina trihydrate
25 silica sand
25 Kaolin (EPK).
Also, there has been discussion of kiln wash before, see the archives.
bfn. peace. Tom B.

Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339 (westend Lake Ontario,
province of Ontario, Canada). mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada

On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, friedlover wrote:

> Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
> Thanks. Rhonda
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>

ferenc jakab on tue 8 aug 00

Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
Thanks. Rhonda

Rhonda you will probably be overwhelmed, and you will get some posts about
ITC which I beleive is a very good product, though I have never used it.

My recipe is 1part kaolin to 3 parts alumina hydrate and 2 parts silica.
I've never had problems with this mix after 12 years of use in the gas fired
kiln. I have taken this to cone 12 when firing porcelain masks. The kaolin I
use is eckalite 2. I apply it by hand and sponge and smooth the surface as
it dries.

But I cannot give guarantees and I have never tried it with salt.

Ray Aldridge on tue 8 aug 00

At 11:02 PM 8/7/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Alumina Hydrate 3
>Ball Clay 1.
>
>For salt kilns add a small percentage of fine Silicon Carbide or Zirconium
>Ox.
>
>

Why do you add silicon carbide to salt wash? In my salt kiln, silicon
carbide shelves get foamy. I use equal proportions of alumina hydrate and
kaolin, rather than ball, on the theory that ball clay has more silica.

Ray


Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com

philrogers pottery on tue 8 aug 00

Hi Ray,

To be truthful I am not sure of the chemistry but Silicon Carbide does
resist salt attack. Witness the longevity of the silicon carbide shelf
against a normal alumina fireclay shelf. The foaming that you see is, I
think, a binder that is used in the moulding process during manufacture. I
was told of Peter Meanleys kiln wash that he uses in a soft brick salt kiln
that included Silicon Carbide and adopted the practice and it seems to work.
Zirconium is also salt resistant and is an ingredient of some of the
propriety coatings for refractories.

Not a scientific explanation but I hope it helps,

Phil.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Aldridge
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash


> At 11:02 PM 8/7/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >Alumina Hydrate 3
> >Ball Clay 1.
> >
> >For salt kilns add a small percentage of fine Silicon Carbide or
Zirconium
> >Ox.
> >
> >
>
> Why do you add silicon carbide to salt wash? In my salt kiln, silicon
> carbide shelves get foamy. I use equal proportions of alumina hydrate and
> kaolin, rather than ball, on the theory that ball clay has more silica.
>
> Ray
>
>
> Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
> http://www.goodpots.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Steve Mills on tue 8 aug 00

2 parts by weight Alumina Hydrate
1 part............China Clay (Kaolin)

When using it keep stirring, it settles at the speed of light, but boy
does it do the job!

Steve


In message , friedlover writes
>Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
>Thanks. Rhonda
>

--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Maggie Woodhead on thu 10 aug 00

Hello Rhonda, Kia Ora
I got this recipe some time ago
from Clayart and have recently mixed it up and am trying it out,
unfortunately I did not have the Kyanite at the time and was in a hurry
to fire so made it up without that ingredient. However the next batch I
have all the ingredients and will make the recipe up as is.
Came from Robert Tetu / Tom Buck according to my records and is working
well as of now the Kyanite may improve it even further. What do you say
Tom?

Kiln Wash Recipe:-
Aluminum Hydrate---40
EPK----------------------30
Silica---------------------22
Kyanite--------------------8
Good Luck
----Best Wishes Maggie----
maggiew@clear.net.nz




----- Original Message -----
From: "friedlover"
To:
Sent: Monday, 7 August 2000 07:28
Subject: kiln wash


Hi kindly souls. Can someone give me their mix for kiln wash?
Thanks. Rhonda

________________________________________________________________________
______
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Cindy Strnad on sat 25 nov 00

Hi, Judy.

I expect the reason I think of the kiln wash flaking off and landing on
pottery is the several times I've missed removing a flake or two when
turning shelves. Whatever you use, you have to be careful with it--I just
prefer using silica sand as it's less of a hassle to remove. But you do have
to watch out for this landing in your ware, too.

Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com

Judy Musicant on sat 25 nov 00

Cindy,

My experience with flaking kiln wash has been different from yours. You =
said that the kind of kiln wash that flakes off the shelves will flake =
onto your pots after a few firings. For 15 years, I've used equal parts =
kaolin and silica as kiln wash. This has protected the shelves very =
well. It does flake off the shelves, but has never flaked onto a pot.

Judy

Martin Howard on sun 26 nov 00

Cindy posting ... several times I've missed removing a flake or two when
turning shelves ... made me think.
When have I turned a shelf?
Never in this kiln.
Possibly because seeing some flaking batwash, I thought only of putting it
back in batwash side uppermost.

So far the shelves haven't warped. Maybe because they only reach cone 3 at
the most.

So, if it ain't broken don't fix it?

Martin Howard, happy after a day without pouring rain,
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk

karen terpstra on tue 21 aug 01

Ron,
I'm going to try your 20% ball clay and 80% Alumina. I've been using
50/50 EPK and alumina in the wood kiln. I make stuff with both
stoneware and porcelain and have noticed more of a problem with it
sticking to the porcelain now that I think about it. Especially
sculptural work that gets tumble stacked in the wood kiln. When I had
Ryoji Koie here for a workshop, he made paddies out of 100% alumina.
Expensive but in the long run it pays for itself.


Karen Terpstra

I have been watching this thread for a while and have an addition.

I work at cone 10 with a porcelain body most of the time. I have found - in
the past that porcelain likes to stick to silica - any kind of silica - so
I leave silica out of my wash.

What am I using now? 20 ball and 80 Alumina hydrate - calcined would be fine.

RR

Ron Roy

John Jensen on tue 11 sep 01

I'm no an expert in kiln wash, but I'd expect a kiln was that cracked and
peeled had too much clay in it. My own kiln wash is 1/3 each silica, epk
and alumina. It works, so I use it. I've tried going without kiln wash,
thinking I had my glazes under control; but then I found that there is a
sort of faint misting of glaze which rains down on the kiln shelf. This
misting probably comes from the boiling of some ingredient or another; but
whatever the cause, it does build up an undesirable sticky coating on the
shelf. So I continue to keep a layer of kiln wash on my shelves, which I
appreciate whenever I do have a mishap of some sort. Shelves are expensive
and it is a tedious job to chisel and grind chunks of glaze. At the school
where I teach, we do put on multiple layers of fairly heavy kiln wash with
the understanding that there are going to be massive amounts of running
glaze. We have five or six teachers, with five or six policies, as well as
a co-op of marginally competent members. Shelf maintainance is always a big
issue and bone of contention at the school. In my own studio, I rarely need
to recoat my shelves and the fact of having some kiln wash on them is not a
problem.

John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toad.net www.Toadhouse.com

Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on mon 22 oct 01

Eleanora that kiln wash of Don Jung may not work
above cone 8. Ron Roy suggests that silica tends
to get sticky at about cone 10. I found Don Jung's=20
recipe good for everything below cone 9. It even=20
works nicely with glass. Kind regards from Ralph
in Cape Town,

Michael Juengling on sun 11 aug 02

Hi All, I have been lurking here on the list for the past month or so and
have been really impressed by the quality of information being passed
around. I am a rank novice at this art so I find many of the posts very
helpful. I have been able to acquire a used kiln that was in an almost new
condition, however the wash on the shelves has chipped or flaked off leaving
a few small patches of uncovered shelf. What is the best way to repair
these bare spots?
Thanks,
Michael Juengling, N8ESK
26 40 N, 81 58 W

Earl Brunner on sun 11 aug 02

You need some kiln wash. YOu can buy it at most ceramic supply stores in the US.
But it is just as easy and cheaper to make your own.
The one I like the best is 60% alumina hydrate, 30% kaolin, and 10
5 bentonite.

I used to use 50% kaolin, 50% silica, it works well too.

None of these measurements need to be exact.
You can either scrape, grind or sand the wash off of the shelves and redo them, or
just touch up the bare spots.

Michael Juengling wrote:

> Hi All, I have been lurking here on the list for the past month or so and
> have been really impressed by the quality of information being passed
> around. I am a rank novice at this art so I find many of the posts very
> helpful. I have been able to acquire a used kiln that was in an almost new
> condition, however the wash on the shelves has chipped or flaked off leaving
> a few small patches of uncovered shelf. What is the best way to repair
> these bare spots?
> Thanks,
> Michael Juengling, N8ESK
> 26 40 N, 81 58 W
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net

Barbara Mueller on sun 11 aug 02

I too am a newbie and I read something somewhere and am curious what
people here think. The article said not to use kiln wash so that you can
turn your shelves over and over to prevent warping. It suggested using
something underneath a piece that you suspect the glaze may run. What
are other people's thoughts on this?

B.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On
Behalf Of Michael Juengling
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 3:02 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Kiln Wash

Hi All, I have been lurking here on the list for the past month or so
and
have been really impressed by the quality of information being passed
around. I am a rank novice at this art so I find many of the posts very
helpful. I have been able to acquire a used kiln that was in an almost
new
condition, however the wash on the shelves has chipped or flaked off
leaving
a few small patches of uncovered shelf. What is the best way to repair
these bare spots?
Thanks,
Michael Juengling, N8ESK
26 40 N, 81 58 W

________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Paul Brinkmann on sun 11 aug 02

Dear Mike. Its been my experience and observation that you take a putty
knife, and scrape off the loose dried wash, and just repaint, brush on a
fresh coat or two. Its much like painting your house. Try and get the loose
flakes off, and dont worry about the pieces that dont come off.

Snail Scott on mon 12 aug 02

At 07:02 AM 8/11/02 -0400, you wrote:
>the wash on the shelves has chipped or flaked off leaving
>a few small patches of uncovered shelf. What is the best way to repair
>these bare spots?

If the remaining wash is flaky, scrape it off with
a putty knife and re-coat. If the remaining wash is
firmly attached, but thin, just daub a little fresh
kilnwash into the bare patches. If the remaining
wash is thick and the bare patches are small, do
the same as above, but if the bare patches are big
and mangy-looking, best to sand it down (wear a
mask!) and apply an all-new coating or two. (Yeah,
I know you said "a few small patches", but I figured
you might wonder, for future reference.)

-Snail

Dupre Mr Marcy M on tue 4 mar 03

Mudslingers, Lurkers, Gurus, All,

I am certain there are nearly as many recipes for kiln wash as there are
recipes for ^6 glazes. :o) We all have our favorites, and I am no
exception. Use what works for you.

Just a suggestion: In every recipe for kiln wash I saw on the thread, I saw
folks recommending the use of a brush to apply. What I found saves a LOT of
time, and makes the application MUCH easier is to use a roller. Got the
idea from my professor at college, many years ago.

Yes, a common, ordinary, El Cheapo paint roller and plastic pan. Mix up the
wash. Next step is optional: mask off about 0.5" around the rim. (Not
really necessary, just makes a cleaner edge, if you're as picky as I am!)
Roll on kiln wash, smooth out the ripples. Start in the center of the shelf
and work to the edges. Wait for it to dry--should be about five minutes or
less. Roll on another coat, perpendicular to the first coat.

Trim any drips on the rims (if you didn't mask) by scraping with a stiff
plastic card--old credit cards work well.

The surfaces of the shelves are smooth, slightly rippled, and nice and even.
Best of all, your wrists aren't worn out from the brush and drag from the
wash. Clean up is easy, also.

Play dirty!

Tig
in Springfield, VA

Wayne Lewis on fri 20 jun 03

I have always used store bought kiln wash. Now I need to make my own. What
is a good receipe for a small updraft kiln/^10 reduction?

Ron Roy on sun 22 jun 03

If you are firing porcelain avoid silica at all costs.

I use 20% ball clay and 80% alumina hydrate - you may need to adjust the
ball clay depending on how well it sticks to the shelves.

If new shelves wash them off with a wet sponge - shelves need to be a bit
wet before applying wash anyway. I spray my wash on with one of those pump
garden sprayers (about a quart size.) Gives a nice pebbly surface.

If you are rubbing down old shelves get all the dust off and make sure the
old wash is a bit wet.

Wipe off any wash that gets on the sides of the shelves. Let then dry
before firing.

Old kiln wash is full of cristobalite - a particularly bad form of
crystalline silica to get in your lungs - make sure your ventilation is
good and wear a proper mask that will filter out the silica that causes
silicosis. If you have a beard it is most likely impossible to get a mask
to fit right.

RR

>I have always used store bought kiln wash. Now I need to make my own. What
>is a good receipe for a small updraft kiln/^10 reduction?


Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513

Andrew Gardner on tue 5 aug 03

Wood firers!
Suddenly getting peeling of my kiln wash off my shelves. Dry, wet, thick,
thin...it just cracks and peels away...even off old kiln wash. New Alumina
Hydrate problem? I 've been using basically a 60/40 Alumina Hydrate/EPK
for some time with no problems. What gives?
Andy

steve harrison on wed 6 aug 03

> I 've been using basically a 60/40 Alumina Hydrate/EPK

It sounds to me that you might have got the recipe back to front?
regards
Steve Harrison

beverly blitzer on wed 6 aug 03

> Hydrate problem? I 've been using basically a 60/40 Alumina Hydrate/EPK


we have been wood firing using equal parts of alumina hydrate, epk, and
whiting on the shelves. Good luck.

Snail Scott on thu 4 sep 03

At 04:18 PM 9/4/03 -0600, you wrote:
>1/2 flint + 1/2 Kaolin EPK...my question is. Flint powdered or Flour flint...


No difference. -Snail

Ann Brink on thu 4 sep 03

Llewellyn- I used to use this recipe, but had trouble with kiln vapors
causing fluxing after a while. When I got new shelves I substituted alumina
for the flint , and am VERY satisfied with how it's holding up. I know this
isn't what you asked, but......there's my 2 cents anyway.

Good Firings,
Ann Brink in Lompoc CA



> Readers.
> This week I am getting ready for another glaze process. I did up the kiln
> shelves and found my note card says:
> 1/2 flint + 1/2 Kaolin EPK...my question is. Flint powdered or Flour
flint.
> Which is the best for the kiln shelf wash....or does someone like
something
> better for cone 9 firings.
> I want to make a final notation for my bucket. I know the blender sure
> works nice to get it smooth. Thanks in advance
>
> Llewellyn Kouba
>

Llewellyn Kouba on thu 4 sep 03

Readers.
This week I am getting ready for another glaze process. I did up the kiln
shelves and found my note card says:
1/2 flint + 1/2 Kaolin EPK...my question is. Flint powdered or Flour flint.
Which is the best for the kiln shelf wash....or does someone like something
better for cone 9 firings.
I want to make a final notation for my bucket. I know the blender sure
works nice to get it smooth. Thanks in advance

Llewellyn Kouba

Ron Roy on fri 5 sep 03

Hi Llewellyn,

I used 50/50 kaolin and silica for years - but when I started up with
porcelain it became a problem. Porcelain - because of all the spar in it -
has an affinity for silica and some pots were sticking to the shelves - and
the feet were chipping as the ware cooled.

I now use a mix of ball clay and alumina hydrate - 20 or 30 ball with the
rest alumina hydrate - I expect calcined alumina would work as well.

RR


>This week I am getting ready for another glaze process. I did up the kiln
>shelves and found my note card says:
>1/2 flint + 1/2 Kaolin EPK...my question is. Flint powdered or Flour flint.
>Which is the best for the kiln shelf wash....or does someone like something
>better for cone 9 firings.
>I want to make a final notation for my bucket. I know the blender sure
>works nice to get it smooth. Thanks in advance
>
>Llewellyn Kouba
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513

Zoe Paddy Johnson on sat 6 sep 03

How often do you clean shelves and put on new kiln wash? When working with
glass, the kiln shelf must be scraped and cleaned with each firing. Is it
the same way with clay?
ZoeJ

Earl Brunner on sat 6 sep 03

Maybe two level teaspoons to a level tablespoon added to a baby food
size jar of wax, I was never terribly exact about it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Llewellyn
Kouba
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 11:54 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln Wash

Earl,

Can you give me an estimate on 'how much' approx. alumina hydrate to add
to
the wax resist. Sounds like a great idea and preventics.

Llewellyn Kouba


At 10:18 AM 9/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Llewellyn,
>The kiln wash with alumina in it is good, but I wouldn't redo the
>shelves if you just did that. But you don't need to just wait either.
>In addition to the kiln wash on the shelves, I also add some alumina
>hydrate to water based wax resist and apply that to the bottoms of my
>porcelain pieces. Even with good wash on the shelves, without the
>alumina directly on the foot of the pot, they still chip.
>

David Hewitt on sat 6 sep 03

For what it is worth, I only use silica sand. It does not require mixing
and is easy to sprinkle onto the bats. It lasts quite a long time before
it requires renewing.

I fire in an electric kiln up to cone 9

Much of what I do is porcelain agate ware, some of which is not glazed.
In these cases I can sit bowls inside each other with some silica sand
in the bottom where they touch. I have no trouble with them sticking to
each other.

David
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP18 3DQ.
Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
Fax:- +44 (0) 870 1617274
Web:- http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk

Llewellyn Kouba on sat 6 sep 03

Ron,

Thank you much for the great tip. Now I know what the problem has been on
occasion when a porcelain would chip along the bottom. I am definitely
going to change my kiln wash practice. Too bad I recoated them just the
other day so I am going to have to wait until they need to be scrapped
again but in most cases that isn't all that far away and they will crack
off and need to be redone. I appreciate the tip.

Llewellyn Kouba
Abbey Pottery


At 07:27 PM 9/5/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Llewellyn,
>
>I used 50/50 kaolin and silica for years - but when I started up with
>porcelain it became a problem. Porcelain - because of all the spar in it -
>has an affinity for silica and some pots were sticking to the shelves - and
>the feet were chipping as the ware cooled.
>
>I now use a mix of ball clay and alumina hydrate - 20 or 30 ball with the
>rest alumina hydrate - I expect calcined alumina would work as well.
>
>RR
>
>
> >This week I am getting ready for another glaze process. I did up the kiln
> >shelves and found my note card says:
> >1/2 flint + 1/2 Kaolin EPK...my question is. Flint powdered or Flour flint.
> >Which is the best for the kiln shelf wash....or does someone like something
> >better for cone 9 firings.
> >I want to make a final notation for my bucket. I know the blender sure
> >works nice to get it smooth. Thanks in advance
> >
> >Llewellyn Kouba
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>Ron Roy
>RR#4
>15084 Little Lake Road
>Brighton, Ontario
>Canada
>K0K 1H0
>Phone: 613-475-9544
>Fax: 613-475-3513
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.

Earl Krueger on sat 6 sep 03

On Friday, September 5, 2003, at 11:57 PM, David Hewitt wrote:

> For what it is worth, I only use silica sand. It does not require
> mixing
> and is easy to sprinkle onto the bats.

David,
I'm a little confused, may be terminology, so could
you please clarify some things for me?

Are "bats" what I call kiln shelves or are they clay
pieces you set your work on?

If you apply directly to shelves what material are your
shelves made of? Does it matter?

> It lasts quite a long time before it requires renewing.

Does this imply that the sand sinters to the bat and is
therefore not loose once it's fired, or after firing is the
sand still loose and you brush it off and reuse it?

And one last question; does the sand stick to the bottom
of the pots with any tenacity or leave little pock marks?

BTW: On the first half-way decent pot I made I used
your satin eggshell glaze from Bailey's book. I'd had
good shapes up until then but lousy glaze.

Thanks.

Earl...

Earl Brunner on sat 6 sep 03

Llewellyn,
The kiln wash with alumina in it is good, but I wouldn't redo the
shelves if you just did that. But you don't need to just wait either.
In addition to the kiln wash on the shelves, I also add some alumina
hydrate to water based wax resist and apply that to the bottoms of my
porcelain pieces. Even with good wash on the shelves, without the
alumina directly on the foot of the pot, they still chip.

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Llewellyn
Kouba
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 6:47 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln Wash

Ron,

Thank you much for the great tip. Now I know what the problem has been
on
occasion when a porcelain would chip along the bottom. I am definitely
going to change my kiln wash practice. Too bad I recoated them just the
other day so I am going to have to wait until they need to be scrapped
again but in most cases that isn't all that far away and they will crack
off and need to be redone. I appreciate the tip.

Llewellyn Kouba
Abbey Pottery

Llewellyn Kouba on sat 6 sep 03

Earl,

Can you give me an estimate on 'how much' approx. alumina hydrate to add to
the wax resist. Sounds like a great idea and preventics.

Llewellyn Kouba


At 10:18 AM 9/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Llewellyn,
>The kiln wash with alumina in it is good, but I wouldn't redo the
>shelves if you just did that. But you don't need to just wait either.
>In addition to the kiln wash on the shelves, I also add some alumina
>hydrate to water based wax resist and apply that to the bottoms of my
>porcelain pieces. Even with good wash on the shelves, without the
>alumina directly on the foot of the pot, they still chip.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Llewellyn
>Kouba
>Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 6:47 AM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Kiln Wash
>
>Ron,
>
>Thank you much for the great tip. Now I know what the problem has been
>on
>occasion when a porcelain would chip along the bottom. I am definitely
>going to change my kiln wash practice. Too bad I recoated them just the
>other day so I am going to have to wait until they need to be scrapped
>again but in most cases that isn't all that far away and they will crack
>off and need to be redone. I appreciate the tip.
>
>Llewellyn Kouba
>Abbey Pottery
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.

Snail Scott on sat 6 sep 03

At 07:46 AM 9/6/03 -0600, you wrote:
>...porcelain would chip along the bottom. I am definitely
>going to change my kiln wash practice. Too bad I recoated them just the
>other day so I am going to have to wait...


No need to wait. Just mix up a high-alumina
batch and apply a thin coat on top of your
current kiln wash.

-Snail

Zoe Paddy Johnson on sun 7 sep 03

WOW! Glass has to be fired on a bright new shelf or it sticks. When I am
firing glass shelves have to be cleaned every single use.
ZoeJ

I don't
> think I've re-washed an entire shelf in five years at
> least.
>
> -Snail
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> _____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.

Louis Katz on sun 7 sep 03

Only when the wash gets wrecked by dripping glaze, comes off on its
own, or gets a good amount of soda salt or woodash if you fire with
with them.
Louis
On Saturday, September 6, 2003, at 10:25 PM, Zoe Paddy Johnson wrote:

> How often do you clean shelves and put on new kiln wash? When working
> with
> glass, the kiln shelf must be scraped and cleaned with each firing.
> Is it
> the same way with clay?
> ZoeJ
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>

Snail Scott on sun 7 sep 03

At 09:25 PM 9/6/03 -0600, you wrote:
>How often do you clean shelves and put on new kiln wash?


As often as it gets messed up or flaky. It's perfectly
possible to keep one wash-job for years and years, or
to have to scrape and re-wash for every firing. If your
recipe isn't prone to excessive flaking, and you don't
get glaze stuck in it, it may never need redoing. Small
drips can often be chipped up and spot-patched. I don't
think I've re-washed an entire shelf in five years at
least.

-Snail

Ron Roy on sun 7 sep 03

Hi Llewellyn,

Yes - scrape it off now - it will come off easier - I spray my wash on now
- with just one of those quart garden sprayers that you pump up - gives an
even textured coating -

RR

>Thank you much for the great tip. Now I know what the problem has been on
>occasion when a porcelain would chip along the bottom. I am definitely
>going to change my kiln wash practice. Too bad I recoated them just the
>other day so I am going to have to wait until they need to be scrapped
>again but in most cases that isn't all that far away and they will crack
>off and need to be redone. I appreciate the tip.
>
>Llewellyn Kouba
>Abbey Pottery

Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513

mel jacobson on mon 16 aug 04

i have coated all of my shelves with itc 100. top, bottom, edges.
it is the best kiln wash i have ever used.

it is permanent....never flakes off, put it on once,
and bingo...forever. flip my shelves every firing.
hell, use a brush or a paint roller. takes a few minutes for
each one. i bisque fire them when done...get off all the water.

if you spill glaze...just take a small, very sharp chisel and
one tiny smack...the drip comes off, in one piece. (most often)

i keep a small pint jar of itc100 mixed into a smooth paste.
one brush full on the blem...back to work.

working with very runny chinese glazes means trouble.
and we are getting runs on the shelves.
not a problem. sarah was very upset with several of her pieces
that ran all over. three minutes...smack, smack...bing.
all clean and they are back in production.

i would never use anything else. the shelves at the farm
for the salt kiln...just shed salt. takes minutes to get the
shelves ready for a firing.

i have also dipped my bricks for my loose stacked door with
itc 100. keeps them nice and clean...and not all flaky.

i do not coat my advancers. they don't need it. anyway, the
theory is: they are metal more than clay. glaze drips just pop
off them.

mel/ up early...waiting for the kiln to cool....big chinese glaze tests.
18 inch platters and bowls.
lots of them. third claybody.
pix will follow.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com

claybair on mon 16 aug 04

Mel,
What a great idea....
Now I know you are going to tell me I have
to remove all the old crud kiln wash off my shelves
before I apply the ITC 100.... but thought I'd ask anyway!
Do I also have to wet the shelves before applying it?
Please give directions...... What preparations?
How thin an application? etc.

Gayle Bair - wondering if an application of ITC on some
houses in fire prone areas would be of use???
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mel jacobson

i have coated all of my shelves with itc 100. top, bottom, edges.
it is the best kiln wash i have ever used.

it is permanent....never flakes off, put it on once,
and bingo...forever. flip my shelves every firing.
hell, use a brush or a paint roller. takes a few minutes for
each one. i bisque fire them when done...get off all the water.

if you spill glaze...just take a small, very sharp chisel and
one tiny smack...the drip comes off, in one piece. (most often)

i keep a small pint jar of itc100 mixed into a smooth paste.
one brush full on the blem...back to work.

working with very runny chinese glazes means trouble.
and we are getting runs on the shelves.
not a problem. sarah was very upset with several of her pieces
that ran all over. three minutes...smack, smack...bing.
all clean and they are back in production.

i would never use anything else. the shelves at the farm
for the salt kiln...just shed salt. takes minutes to get the
shelves ready for a firing.

i have also dipped my bricks for my loose stacked door with
itc 100. keeps them nice and clean...and not all flaky.
snip>

Mark & Linda on thu 20 jan 05

I just got this new advancer shelve kiln wash formula from firebrick supply

50% alumina hydrate
25% EPK
25% Calcined EPK

Anyone tried this??? Looks good Mark Cortright

www.liscomhillpottery.com

Paul Herman on fri 21 jan 05

Hi Mark,

I use the same formula for kiln wash, except the alumina is oxide and
the EPK is all raw. It works fine.

Paul Herman

Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://www.greatbasinpottery.com/

----------
>From: Mark & Linda
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: kiln wash
>Date: Thu, Jan 20, 2005, 9:12 PM
>

> I just got this new advancer shelve kiln wash formula from firebrick supply
>
> 50% alumina hydrate
> 25% EPK
> 25% Calcined EPK
>
> Anyone tried this??? Looks good Mark Cortright
>
> www.liscomhillpottery.com

dannon rhudy on thu 22 sep 05

Lori, I have found that using silica in kiln wash is
counter productive, especially if you are using
porcelain or porcelainous stoneware. Causes
feet to stick to the shelves.

You can use silica sand if you like, but alumina and
kaolin are fine by themselves.

regards

Dannon Rhudy

Lori on fri 23 sep 05

Hi,
Tired of my foot rings sticking to the shelves in the glaze fire, so I found
a recipe for "Combo Kiln Wash" in the archives...It calls for 40 gm
Alumina Hydrate, 30 gm EPK, 8 gm Kyanite (35 mesh) and 22 gm Silica. My
question...several of the other recipes call for "Silica Sand." This one
didn't specify and I'm wondering if I could just use regular silica. Has
anyone tried this recipe? I fire to cone 5 or 6 electric...

Thanks,
Lori

JOYCE LEE on sat 24 sep 05

Thank you, Mike. What a thorough and thoughtful post. I'm
delighted to her about this. I would NEVER ha